SecuritySpy Version 6 - Licensing Questions
We are delighted to announce that, after a year of hard work to prepare it, SecuritySpy version 6 is now available! Full details about the new software can be found at Upgrading to Version 6, and it can be downloaded from the SecuritySpy Download Page.
If you have any questions about the functionality of the new software, please post them to SecuritySpy Version 6 - Feature Questions. Use this forum discussion to ask any questions you may have about licensing, costs or upgrade eligibility.
Starting with version 6, we're updating our approach to ongoing updates and support. For nearly two decades, we've followed a major release cycle every four years, requiring users to pay upgrade fees for each major version. This traditional model has drawbacks for both us as developers and you as customers. Developing each major release takes about a year, inevitably requiring us to hold back already-completed features during this time. Additionally, the uncertainty of update duration post-purchase has been an issue; while guaranteed for at least six months, we typically extended this throughout the product's life, up to four years. This meant the value received varied greatly depending on when a user made their purchase within the release cycle.
We have therefore decided to change the model for SecuritySpy 6. There will be no further major releases with associated costs. Instead, we will continuously create and deliver improvements on an ongoing basis. Users will enjoy access to updates and free technical assistance for a defined period of time after purchase: the Support Period.
During the support period, all software updates and technical help will be provided free of charge. Each purchase of SecuritySpy, or upgrade for more cameras, includes a two-year support period, which you can choose to extend before its expiry to continue to receive the benefits. The cost of extending the support period will be significantly lower than the initial purchase price of the software (specifically, a one-year extension is 25% of the full purchase price, with additional discounts available for multi-year extensions).
In contrast to a full subscription-type model that many other software companies employ nowadays, SecuritySpy will remain fully functional even after the support period ends. Extensions are optional, simply offering continued access to the latest updates and technical help.
If you purchased version 5 on or after 5 September 2023, you are entitled to a free upgrade to version 6. Simply install and use the new software.
Otherwise, if you purchased on or after 5 March 2023, your paid upgrade will include a 3-year support period rather than the usual 2 years.
Comments
How long is the 33% off upgrade good for? I typically like to wait for some point releases before upgrading to new major versions.
We'll be offering the 33% discount until the end of this month. From 1 April 2024, the discount will reduce to 25%.
Waiting is understandable when there is a major change, but we haven't seen any significant problems yet with the new release, and if any do arise we will do our best to resolve them ASAP. What you could do is simply install and try the new software, which will initially run as a fully-featured trial. If you have any problems, you can use the option under Settings > Registration in the new software to revert to version 5.
"The cost of extending the support period will be significantly lower than the initial purchase price of the software (specifically, a one-year extension is 25% of the full purchase price, with additional discounts available for multi-year extensions)."
Listen, I love SecuritySpy. I've been a user for well over a decade, but the pricing has become ridiculous compared to the already pretty ridiculous price it was before (compared to other NVR software, or even hardware).
A 25% discount on an $800 purchase (32 cameras), so $600, to continue to get updates for a SINGLE year is significantly lower?? Before version 6, the cost for an upgrade was 50% of the purchase price. Now it has gone up to 66% of the purchase price. With the four year release cycle, you only had to pay that 50% once every for years, so $400 for me every four years. Now to upgrade to version 6 and get the same four years of updates/support for me it will be $533 now, then $600 in two years, and another $600 in three years. So $1,733 total.
The price for the same period of updates/support has increased by $1,300. That is insane. I can upgrade the 10 cameras in my home that aren't yet Unifi Protect for less than that and then pay no monthly fees for the software at all. Which is likely what I'll be doing now. Increasing the price for your software by 333% is frankly an insult to a loyal customer that has been supporting you since the beginning.
@emergent - I think you are reading this wrong. Initially, each purchase or upgrade includes 2 years of free support (which is one more year that most other software companies offer!). Thereafter, renewing the support is optional because the software will continue to function indefinitely. But, if you were to want to renew the support, the cost of this is %25 of the full software price, not a 25% discount off the price.
As an example: if you pay $119 now to buy the 4-camera version of SecuritySpy, you initially get full updates and access to technical support for 2 years. Then, you can choose to pay $29.75 to renew for another year. In addition, if you renew for multiple years at this point, you get further discounts.
This allows us to provide updates and support to paid customers in a continuous way, with low ongoing costs for users, rather than the old traditional method of large upgrade fees every 4 years or so.
I hope upon reflection that the new scheme is actually quite attractive, providing benefits for both us as developers and you as users.
Ah, well I did misread that "of" the full purchase price as "off". Still, it would be more expensive than what the current upgrade cycle has been. So for me, $533 today, then $200 in two years. So $733 for three years, vs the previous $400 every four years. It would be nice if you kept the 50% upgrade price that it has been for all of the previous generations especially now that it is moving to a yearly subscription model. To keep it the same price as previously after the upgrade to V6, the multi year discount would need to get down to 12.5% the total cost to make it comparable to what the upgrade was previously. I understand that price increases are inevitable, and you should be compensated for your work, but it just seems very high compared to other software out there. At $533 I'm not sure it would be worth it for the upgrade. A 50% upgrade discount to bring it to $400 like it was previously is probably about the max I would be willing to pay before looking at other options.
I understand your comments, and also that the new model may be welcomed by some but disliked by others. It does resolve many problems with the old model, as detailed via Upgrading to Version 6. To reply to some of your specific points:
For the last couple of major upgrades, we offered a 30% discount, not 50%. This time we are offering 33%, which is higher than our previous discount offering (only by 3%, but it's definitely higher, not lower than before!)
Over the last four years, inflation has totalled around 20% but our prices have risen by only 6%, making the software significantly less expensive in real terms. You can't quite compare $1 four years ago to $1 today.
Overall I'm sympathetic to what you're saying. We have tried to come up with a system that is fair and affordable, but we understand it's not going to be universally liked. Likewise, I'm sure the old system was not universally liked, for different reasons.
"For the last couple of major upgrades, we offered a 30% discount, not 50%. This time we are offering 33%, which is higher than our previous discount offering (only by 3%, but it's definitely higher, not lower than before!)"
This is simply untrue.
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At my 32 camera license level, the upgrade cost did stop my finger pressing the upgrade button. On a smaller camera license numbers, it's a no brainer, but at my higher camera count level, it's beyond my immediate go level.
Losing 100% of ability to use version 5 plus the upgrade cost being rather close to full pricing creates an additional path to consider. It likely makes more sense to buy a new license outright and retain ability to use the old V5 in addition to a new V6 license. That would double total number of possible cameras (albeit half would be on a separate, non-upgrading machine) for only 33% more than an upgrade that keeps one at same total camera count.
Still ruminating....
Now that you mention it @emergent, I have those 50% upgrade emails too.
I'm sure there's been a misunderstanding somewhere? 🤔
Robbie
@emergent apologies, I stand corrected. We did indeed offer limited-time 50% discounts on the v4 and v5 upgrades, and then subsequently (a few weeks after release) this reduced to 30%. You are correct about this.
I have to admit I am not a fan of the new subscription model considering I am a long term user and still have a long term way to go in terms of adding more cameras and upgrading my license further.
I can not help but feel a license fee per x number of cameras would have still been good but then with a standard cost of x per year subscription fee for updates / support. This new approach just seems ick to me and at a time when my server has crashed and I am trying to rebuild it makes me think do I really need to run my cams from a Mac.
I think I am going to have to put quite a lot of research into this personally.
Thanks for your feedback @8urt0. I'm not sure if I'm understanding - you said you would prefer "a license fee per x number of cameras would have still been good but then with a standard cost of x per year subscription fee for updates / support." But, this is pretty much what our new licensing system offers. Are you suggesting that the support fee should not depend on the number of cameras? I'm not sure this would work well - some kind of fixed support fee would be too expensive for a home user with, say, 4 camera, but way too cheap for a business with a 50-camera system that potentially needs a lot more support and software functionality. Or perhaps you're suggesting something else?
I did mean a flat yearly fee but your point on large businesses with a 50 camera system is very on point. To be honest I had no idea V6 existed it was just I stumbled upon this thread when finding an answer to fix my broken system at the moment. Upon doing some research last night and looking at "The PC Alternative" I still believe you have a far superior product and while the costs over time do go up in reality look at how much everything else has gone up so its quite fair really.
For perspective I upgraded my current 8 camera system for 113 pounds and have an option to extend my 2 years of updates to 5 years for an extra 106 pounds. 219 pounds for 5 years worth of updates considering that updates will be much more meaningful with your new development strategy actually gives me more confidence in your product.
I hope this can help others who might feel how my initial reaction was but when you really dig into it and look ahead .. it's worth it.
Yes that is good value for money, especially when you consider that is only £3.65 a month over 5 years (I have 8 cameras too).
@Ben could there be an option to pay monthly because £3.65 a month is far more appealing than a lump sum of £219? A low monthly price may encourage more people to buy/use the software.
@8urt0 where was the option to extend the 2 years of updates to 5 during the upgrade purchase process as I couldn't see it?
@Ben Is there a page that shows the costs of extending support after the two years is up? I couldn't find any details of this on the purchase page.
I have to admit...I am trying it now and I like, so far, what I have seen. I wish there could be more with other aspects that I use, such as ViewCam or the phone apps. That said, now that I'm reading this post, and all the subsequent posts under it, I'm not sure I'm seeing the value of upgrading at this point. It's a lot of coin to put down for, in essence, for me, is an improved web interface (which I'm having some troubles with at the moment).
I really wish I could get a:
Viewcam...this thing keeps freezing. If I let the computer sit long enough, the cameras all freeze. I've tried disabling them and they still won't unfreeze. The only way to fix it is to go all the way out and come back in (full restart of the software).
Phone apps - The interface is a bit stale. I would like to see an improved interface like SS6's interface improvement. SS6 does offer a much cleaner, crisp interface.
@paul2020 You can see the upgrade costs on the upgrade page just enter your new license and you will see the camera upgrade options followed by the support upgrade options https://store.bensoftware.com/store-upgrade
@RocketMan I feel the same. It is "a lot of coin to put down". I'm going to hang fire on upgrading for a while. A 33% discount (soon to be 30% discount) compared to the traditional 50% discount to upgrade is a huge factor in this.
Of course, I accept that the devs need to put food on the table. But so do I as a purchaser.
@Robbie I understand the need for Ben to change the pricing model. I've wondered how long they could keep with the old system given the amount of development that is required on their part. It's a fantastic application and I've seen nothing that really compares to it. At least not at the old and new price points even. For me with 8 cameras and going to a 5 year support window then I would roughly be paying about $5 USD a month.... Which isn't unreasonable given I then will get updates as they roll out and also support. I'm assuming that the V6 users will continue to have the DNS name support. It was mentioned somewhere that for V5 users that would stop working in March of next year
I'm not sure that V6 is fully cooked in comparing it to V5 and what works well there and is having issues on V6 in regards to some camera types. But I also realize that the cameras that I've seen having issues on my part are cheap crappy cameras ( ie Foscam ), but it "works" and the cost to upgrade it isn't justified. If I go to V6 then I probably need to factor in replacing that camera.
I had to roll back to V5 for now... but will keep trying V6 over the trial period.... but as noted the discount amount for upgrading at the front end probably isn't feasible as the V6 needs some tweaking and I can't risk the rath of SWMBO ( SheWho Must Be Obeyed ) over her not having reliable access to view the cameras. I'm just not that brave.
Robbie...agreed. My concern...is SS6 a 'big upgrade' or is it a minor release. I'm not sure yet. The web interface is different (which is good and bad). Some of the menus just look cleaner. Honestly, I'm not sure I would call it a major release. Definitely bigger than the releases we get from minor version to minor version, but (for me) is it a $300+ dollar upgrade? Not sure yet.
So, I run two camera systems at the moment. Security Spy 5/6 and Blue I___. I'll let you figure out what it is. :) BI is a decent system, but I hate its complexity. Their interface is really wonky too. It's stable, but it's just so cumbersome and I honestly don't trust it.
That's why I keep SS. It's reliable (for the most part). Its interface is a bit outdated, particularly on Viewcam and the apps.
The truth is, many years ago, I got to go back and forth with Ben and I actually liked the guy. A wealth of info and he was willing to help and listen. I'm willing to help him improve SS6 to be the best it can be. So, I'm going to jot down here my initial observations and try to help improve the software because, in the end, it will help me and, I think, the rest of the SS community. I've been using it for years now and I know I don't use a lot of its features.
So, I'm going to go through this a step at a time below:
ViewCam - I was a bit peeved I had to go to this and pay extra, but ok...I was hoping it would fix my big complaint with SS and my Mac. It didn't...it got worse. The cameras literally freeze at some point. This may be an issue with my Mac, but I tried it on two Macs and I'm getting the same issue. One is Intel, the other was M2. I was hoping it was something with the Intel one and the M2 would be fine. As I said, the only way to fix it would be to exit out and come back in. Even going in to the setting, disabling and reenabling cameras doesn't help. Also, Ben, we have to find a way to be able to view videos from the recording system. Shouldn't we be able to 'share' the drive/location of the recordings on the recording system and have ViewCam point to that?
Security Spy (on iPhones) - this one needs a bit of an interface refresh. It works fine, but it's just dated. Easier access to recordings. Maybe some controllability of the server functions from inside the app. Not so easy to get to that you accidentally disable recordings...I'll take half the features BI lets you do.
SS6 - Someone said the new web interface has all the recordings on the side, one column deep. That is a bit annoying. I went in a played with it and there's no way (it seems) to change that. I miss a camera just list out recordings 4/5 across. Maybe a way to toggle the view? I'm also having an interesting issue with recordings and the interface. My camera (Sunba illuminati) puts out H.264/H.265 (I had it set at H.264). It says it can't play MOV files and only H.264/H.265. I went in and changed it to H.265 and it worked. I was now able to play videos again. Interesting bug. I have another camera doing the same thing and it doesn't have the ability (it's an older FOSCAM) to do H.264. Is the ability to play anything outside of H.26X gone forever?
I'm going to play with this a bit more as I've only been trying it less than 24 hours.
@RocketMan "My concern...is SS6 a 'big upgrade' or is it a minor release. I'm not sure yet. "
I would say it's definitely a bigger release than either 4 or 5 have been. At least for user facing features. The new web viewer for video files is great and probably my favorite new feature. You can scroll through footage very smoothly. Before I would need to download files to be able to look through them reliably. I wish the iPhone app would work like this with smooth scrolling through video. It's also very helpful to have all of the settings accessible via the web interface. And I always forget that Security Spy has screen control, and it seems to work better in the new interface. And an underrated feature is the file sharing with screen control. I use Jump Desktop for remote access and they still don't have a file sharing feature even though they've been promising it for years
I've definitely noticed some speed and smoothness increases in different areas. When I do actually need to download files, it didn't work that reliably when downloading 3-4+ files at the same time. I'm not sure what changed, or if even anything changed on that end, but I can now download 6-8 files at a time without it timing out midway though the download for some reason. Before I wouldn't try more than two at a time because it was always an issue.
Like you said though, the iPhone app is very dated and deserves and big update. That goes for the AppleTV app as well.
@RocketMan Although I run my cameras on every device I own -- iPhone, Apple TV, a Mac and various Android devices using tinyCam Pro, I'm a simple (minded 😀) user. I don't use the advance features. Or off the property -- running a VPN on everything made a complex system far more complex -- or the new vaunted web interface. I just want to check what's going on in the garden, around the property and who's ringing the front doorbell!
SS on the iPhone and Apple TV need some love.
I think the decision to upgrade and choose support options is really going to be personal for everyone. My perspective comes from another developer experience where initially everything was good, but then the expanded development and support got to a point of failure. Initially I also had issues with the cost of licensing and the camera packs, but I then had to look at my level of support needs for the setup once running. My opinion is that Security Spy is a superior and stable platform where it requires very little of my time to maintain (my time is worth much more than the upgrade costs). The other platform required all sorts of time commitment (especially as the development started to fail), and moving to Windows introduces a completely different amount of support time commitment (and I am an IT guy). It just works, and that means something to me.
My experience with @Ben and his team is one that I decided to embrace after the amazing support I experienced since joining. There are few organizations that I have seen this level of commitment to their customers. It feels like a small company with a truly dedicated group that wants the community to get a product that is of value.
Will there be some technical issues with the new version, for sure! Will Ben and his team address them or provide a good explanation as to why, I am certain of it.
So, for me the commitment of what works out to $3.65 per month is something I am good with. everyone needs to decide for themselves where the value point is at.
Thanks everyone for this wealth of feedback! It's all very useful to us and I appreciate all the comments, both positive and negative. Changing the licensing system was a big decision, especially because it had kind-of worked over the years, and change is not always easy for users to accept. However, we felt that the downsides of the old system and the benefits of the new system were compelling enough to make the change. We have tried to make the renewal durations and costs sufficiently generous to make it a no-brainer for users, while ensuring there is a continuous revenue streams to allow us to continually improve the product without the need for periodical big upgrades, which are disruptive.
The benefit that users will get out of this particular upgrade will of course depend on how much they use the web interface, since this is one of the main new features of the software. So I understand both the comments from some users who say they won't get much out of this, as well as comments from other users who see this is a bigger improvement for them compared with any previous major upgrade. But, beyond the features of 6.0, you are buying into, and supporting the development of, a product that we will continually improve for years to come, and no doubt many features we will add over the coming years will be beneficial for even those users who don't consider the new features in 6.0 to be a big enough reason to upgrade at this moment in time.
I really wish you would reconsider the licensing options after 8 cameras to allow for a per camera increase. I have for years resisted the urge to upgrade my license because I dont need 16 cameras. I would like to add another one or two (and would happily pay a pro-rated amount) but cannot justify the $250 cost to do so.
Hi @john999 I understand your comments and I am sympathetic to your situation, but it's unlikely we are going to change the structure of the license sizes. This has been discussed on the forum before and I have laid out our reasons for this, for example in this discussion. One thing to note is that if we were to change to a per-camera charging system, we would have to increase prices significantly to account for the revenue we would otherwise lose, so a theoretical 10-camera license under that scheme may not be that much less than what we currently charge for a 16-camera license.
Thanks @Ben. I've read the discussion you referenced above--I have to say, I still dont get it. It seems to me like people want to pay for more licenses, but have no avenue to do so out side of buying a number of licenses that they dont need or their equipment cannot support (mine included). Your license pricing is roughly $25-30 per camera. I get the desire to have a minimum buy in, but after a certain amount, why not just take the upgrade price and divide it up by the number of cameras? With the recent change in license structure, this seems like a good time to consider a change in license sizing. The only way you would be losing revenue is not being able to force people to pay for licenses they aren't going to use--is that really the business strategy you want to take? I would encourage you to poll your 8+ camera users to see how many of them would buy additional licenses if they could purchase them in smaller increments. I cannot imagine how this would not result in more revenue for you.
Thanks for the additional thoughts @john999, you may well be right that a per-camera licensing structure would result both in happier users and more revenue for us. The problem is that any major change like this has unpredictable outcomes in terms of revenue. We'd be changing a simple system that has worked well for many years. Your idea to poll users is a good one, and that would certainly be a good thing to do if we are to proceed with any kind of change like this.
Yes, it's true that users with different numbers of cameras can pay a somewhat different per-camera cost for the software, but I wouldn't describe this as paying for "licenses they aren't going to use". You could equally accurately describe this as "some users receiving the software at a lower per-camera price than average". A user with 10 cameras who buys a 16-camera license is still driving more value from the software than the money they parted with (otherwise they wouldn't have made the purchase), but it's certainly a valid question to ask how many users we are deterring from purchase due to this discrepancy.
Another issue is that we have some customers with very large systems, for example 150 cameras or more. At $30/camera this would come to $4500 - probably far too much. So as well as a minimum purchase, there would have to be some kind of sliding scale, or maximum cost. This adds to the complexity, and could potentially make it difficult for users to understand future costs if they plan to scale up their systems.
Still, I do take your points on board, and we will have further internal discussions about this.
@Ben this feels a bit disingenuous. You just made a dramatic change to your licensing structure. The "simple system that has worked for years" is gone. So now, not only do I have to buy 6-7 more licenses than I need, I also am forced into v6 at a cost of $400 (yes I understand I could add more, but I don't need more nor could my aging Mac Mini handle 16 cameras). This probably worked well for you 10 years ago, but the NVR landscape has changed dramatically since then, while SS's licensing structure has not. Don't get me wrong--your software is great, but you have real competition now and this resistance to adapt has me considering options I didn't have when I bought into this ecosystem a decade ago.
@john999 as mentioned, I don't think "having to buy more than you need" is the right way to look at it, though I can understand that this is how it feels. In terms of the change we have just implemented (switching from big upgrades with significant fees every 4 years or so, to an ongoing, smaller fee for ongoing updates), I would argue that this is a positive move that provides users with known future costs and timings of those costs (as opposed to unknown costs for big updates at unknown times), and increases the fairness between different users (because you don't get the disparity in value between purchasing earlier in the major upgrade cycle vs. later).
At the end of the day, our goal is to provide great software at a reasonable price to our users. Pricing is difficult, and we're not always going to get it right, and certainly not for every user. Your feedback is valuable and you make some good points - I'm not saying that the current system is perfect, just that there are tradeoffs with any system. You're certainly right that there is plenty of competition on the market these days - we are offering a product at a certain price, and if we don't remain competitive then users will go elsewhere. I hope the majority of users will consider our offering good value at any number of cameras they may have.
Ben, look at it this way. I think people are holding back because they can't afford to go from 8 to 16. Even 16 to 32 is a bit crazy. Have you considered splitting the difference and offering up a 12 camera option and half the cost to go from 8 to 16?
Whether you realize it or not, you're losing a lot of money by NOT offering it. So, why don't we go with some type of compromise? You win in getting additional licenses and they win for getting what they need.